drew sagan

Joined

• started 216 topics
• posted 4,120 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by drew sagan

• 
  6

  scan of releases in the DC?

  by bohm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would be super happy if someone would scan whatever the wt released on evolution at the dc and put it online.

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  drew sagan

  I would like to look over the books as well, fwiw...
• 
  30

  Day 2 of the Convention is over ... what's missing?

  by wannabefree in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  day number 2 is done.. there was an audio drama, sure, it adds some excitement, hey, its different.. final talk "stay close to jehovah, as jeremiah did" ended with the release of the book ... god's word for us through jeremiah ... not a verse by verse consideration of prophecy, rather, what we can learn from jeremiah's life as a prophet, considers information from jeremiah and lamentations.

  (of course informed readers of this site knew of this release already.).

  noticibly missing ... jesus christ ... to me it was painfully obvious.. one talk i think was numbing our mind to accept the generation bomb tomorrow.. i couldn't help but realize that throughout the convention so far, the vast majority of scriptural references are from old testament (yes, it was hard not to say hebrew scriptures, so i just did).. i didn't realize it so much in the past, but it seems like jehovah's witnesses are trying to accomplish what the nation of israel couldn't, follow laws.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  drew sagan

  The past few books the Watchtower Society has published on prophetic bible books have been quite interesting. They essentially extract moral lessons from these works that can be applied to the experiences of people coping with modernity. The end result is somewhat comical. Thus the advice about remaining single like Jeremiah.

  The end result is a strange mismatch of ideas, in which the bible simply becomes a tool through which the organization channels its mundane recommendations for morality. This is a significant change from where the Witnesses were throughout most of the 20th century. A book such as this would probably have been seen as pointless by the Rutherford/Franz types.

  Reading Jeremiah for the purpose of extracting advice on relationships? Where is this organization headed?
• 
  36

  A Responsible Discussion on Ray Franz's Role in the Lives of Former JW's

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  since it was learned that ray franz went to the hospital and then passed away, most threads have in my opinion, correctly tried to give some honor and respect to a courageous, honest, and principled man.. some borderline trolls, who know many former jw's are easily upset (and they know this.

  i know this...) try to take advantage by hitting on a hot button.

  in this case, its to call you a follower of ray franz.. we all know that isn't true.. but i think that a legitimate discussion on this is in order.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  drew sagan

  I tend to believe that Raymond Franz’s significance within the Jehovah’s Witness movement can be traced to three specific things. First and foremost, he was the highest-ranking member to both leave and speak out against the Watchtower Society’s organizational leadership and practices. This factor more than any other provides authority and authenticity to his polemic works, something that cannot be matched by other authors on the topic. Secondly, scholars, journalists, and other social commentators tend to intellectually neglect the topic of Jehovah’s Witnesses, a point that elevates Franz’s importance (rightly or wrongly) within the canon of works on the subject. Finally, as an author Raymond Franz has become well loved by his audience (mainly people who have some form of association with Jehovah’s Witnesses) because he delivered his arguments free of ad homenem attacks and personal bitterness. He also remained rather accessible in the years following his exit from the Watchtower, a factor that allowed many to follow up with him regarding various aspects of his books and experiences.

  I tend to believe that those with a high opinion of his books (mainly former JWs) do sometimes blur the line between what his books are and what they are not. Both of his works are probably best described as autobiographical polemics, works that seek to make an argument against the exclusionist claims of the Watchtower Society through personal experience and opinion. There is also, however, a research component to his books as well. Yet his research remains linked to a single controversy, namely, whether or not the Watchtower Society is the only Christian organization on earth that is both approved of and used by God. In my own personal opinion, the works of Raymond Franz stand as the go to source for settling this controversy.

  Outside of this basic controversy, however, I feel that there is a need for more research about Jehovah’s Witnesses. Research geared towards developing a theoretical understanding of the movement (through the disciplines such as the sociology of religion, millenarianism, etc.), rather than weighing the claims of the organizations leadership would probably reveal some interesting things about the impacts new religious movements like JWs are having on society. Research about Jehovah's Witnesses is very different from research aiming to validate or discredit a religions claims. I believe that more of the former is needed, and that there is already enough of the latter to go around.

  Like many other former Jehovah’s Witnesses I remain forever grateful for the work that Raymond Franz did in compiling detailed arguments against the claims of the Watchtower Society. For those that need them, his books will continue to stand as an authority on the authenticity of the Watchtower’s claims to being connected with the divine.
• 
  211

  Ray Franz has had a stroke

  by coffee_black in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just setting the record straight.

  there is another thread that notes a claim on wiki that said that ray has died.. he had a stroke yesterday, and is in the hospital.

  he is still alive.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  drew sagan

  May he rest in peace.
• 
  211

  Ray Franz has had a stroke

  by coffee_black in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just setting the record straight.

  there is another thread that notes a claim on wiki that said that ray has died.. he had a stroke yesterday, and is in the hospital.

  he is still alive.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  drew sagan

  Very sad news. You always figure that something like this was eventually going to happen given his age, but it still hurts regardless.
• 
  37

  Are you 2% or 98%. Amazing the way our minds work!

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  amazing.. http://www.beautifulperth.com/freeekytest.html.

  2% or 98% of population?.

  just follow these instructions, and answer the questions one at a time and as quickly as you can!

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  drew sagan

  I had a cougar in the Dominican Republic eating raspberries.
• 
  32

  Finally finished my college degree

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this week i finally finished college.

  feels great to finally be completed.. i have to say that the process has been therapeutic.

  a year and a half ago when i started to go back i still defined myself in terms of my experience as a jw.. that is all gone now.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  drew sagan

  Thanks for the support everybody!
• 
  32

  Finally finished my college degree

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this week i finally finished college.

  feels great to finally be completed.. i have to say that the process has been therapeutic.

  a year and a half ago when i started to go back i still defined myself in terms of my experience as a jw.. that is all gone now.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  drew sagan

  This week I finally finished college. Feels great to finally be completed.

  I have to say that the process has been therapeutic. A year and a half ago when I started to go back I still defined myself in terms of my experience as a JW.

  That is all gone now. For those of you that have been on this forum as long (or longer) than I have, you know that I haven't posted much of anything lately, especially within the past year.

  I have been so consumed with my new family (1st child born last year) and college, that cares about JW related material simply have vanished from my life. I simply no longer care. Sure, there are some intellectual curiosities, but not much more than that. The experience is far behind me, and I'm not looking back.

  To those of you who feel that you need to "help others" in the Watchtower I give you this word of caution. Be careful, because that may simply be an excuse you are using to remain stuck in the past. That's how it was for me. I was stuck, and because I was stuck, I made the ex-jw stuff everything. It defined me. It was a life changing experience that "everybody needs to know."

  But there are more interesting things out there than JWs. If you're stuck in that world (family, kids, spouse, etc.) I get why it would continue to be a concern. But if you have the ability to drop it all, do it! Just a few months back I threw out just about every JW related book I had, and deleted all of the files from my computer. Its all gone, and I'm glad for it.

  Again, I know some of you out there still have to deal with this lousy religion. But if you get the chance, move on with your life. It's worth it!

  - Drew, of the 'not so concerned' class
• 
  73

  RANDY WATTER'S DAD JUST DIED

  by Mary in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  randy watters, owner of freeminds.org father just died a couple of hours ago from pneumonia and alzheimers.

  he was 86 years old.

  as randy has been tireless in his efforts to help countless people come out of the wts, i would like to express my sincere condolences to him at this time.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  drew sagan
• 
  5

  GB's Exegesis Of 'Jack & Jill' (Study Article)

  by Outaservice in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  gb's study article on the 'exegesis of jack and jill'.

  verse 1: "jack and jill went up the hill, to fetch a pail of water.".

  the word "and" presents some difficulties which are not apparent to the casual reader.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  drew sagan